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PostSubject: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 pm

I want to make a suggestion concerning Arrancar Augments. There are pretty much guidelines on every aspect of Arrancar combat except one:

Pesquisa

Maybe I should ask beforehand, if that is wanted in some way. Is it?

If not, I'd find it cool for there to be augments concerning that, because evident in the canon is that Pesquisa varies. Ulquiorra's for example, was so great that he solely relied on it in unreleased fights to discern the amount of strength of his opponent. His dependancy even went as far as him being confused that Ichigo still went on to fight for all sorts of Shonen reasons. He could discern levels of strength exactly. To the point, where he could tell exactly how strong his opponents are and what the gap between their strengths is.

So yeah, just wondering if their could be an augment for that. Of course it doesn't have to be as imbalanced as in the Canon, but enhancing it would be cool. Because Arrancar evidently have the greatest means to sense power. Or so the Bleach Wiki says xD

Anyway, maybe this thread can also be used as a discussion for any sorts of additional augments that members want added to their respective race, or fun ideas for augments they came up with.

Das would be all, hope this gets considered!
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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:15 pm

I do agree with this, however it has always bothered me that other races cannot do this. I mean seriously. This is SUCH a basic technique. It takes the sensing ability of all races and just builds on it. Out of allllllllll the years Shinigami have been around NOBODY thought of this? Really? -.- Even AFTER the fight with the Arrancar, NOBODY thought to adapt this into their skill set? Reeeeeeally?

I call bull.

Though, I feel I should highlight the fact that Pesquisa (and any other forms of it from other races, because I refuse to believe this of all things is an Arrancar specific technique...seriously, it's just sonar...) is an advanced technique, and since it comes in various forms it would make sense to have it up as an aug. It could also serve it's purpose by not having it up as well. Though I believe that due to the differences in...abilities and differences in usage with this technique, it would make more sense to have it up. Otherwise you have people running around going "Joey has untapped potential! I see it! I know it! Screw you Joey!" while Joey is fighting in a low powered state.

That is how metagaming starts. Yay metagaming...
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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:42 pm

Well, it's a strong ability. And I'm not saying other races can't have it xD I actually think they should since it's a neat ability to have.

Perhaps there should be a weak augment at Average Reiatsu Mastery that allows for minor stuff related to sensory, and a more expensive for Reiatsu Mastery that is really, high-class. I even believe that there could be techniques related to this, though that would be stuff for the people who bought the engineering and mastermind packages.

Anyway, I do think it should be implemented. And it of course shouldn't go the metagaming level, but sensing where someone is, despite hidden Reiatsu perhaps at Master level isn't that bad? I mean, pulling another canon example here: Ulqiorra's Pesquisa wasn't able to catch up to a certain speed, so of course relying on it won't work 100% of the time.

And you won't be able to discern mastery levels, types of Reiatsu, what your Zanpakuto and stuff. But assessing the power level of your opponent in relation to yours isn't that metagamed. I mean, it'd just be an ability that allows a character to assess someone without having to IC fight them and potentially risk their lives if they merely have curious characters.

Anyway: My two cents - I am completely against this going op, I just think it would make a nice addition to the Augment System

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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:57 pm

Wasn't saying you weren't saying other races couldn't have it! Was just throwing that in there =P

And the ability in and of itself isn't metagame. It could basically be like revealing your enemy's mastery levels to you in comparison to yours. Nbd. What I have seen happen, however and why I support the idea for augs that control exactly how adept you are at it, is people running around saying "well I have this, so that means I know you have your shikai, bankai, and your next form as well." That's not how shit works.

Not against the idea at all, I think it's great. When it works, it fucking works. When it goes bad though, it usually leads to long drawn out arguments that turn into pissing contests. *Eye roll*
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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:03 pm

I like the idea. Although it will take a little bit for me to come to a conculsion as to what to allow it to do exactly as an augment.

As for this topic, i love the idea. Im by no means perfect and neither is this system. I admit i overlooked this aspect of arrancar. Im also free for suggestions concerning new augments or broken ones. Please dont keep your comments to yourself. I want to make this place as great as possible and the core of the site, this system, needs to be the very best it can be.
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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:12 pm

Overpowered is something gained through context. The best way I can discribe that is that if everyone can potentially be as good at x as another, x cannot be overpowered. Even if Arrancar were to say, have an innate advantage in the department which means they will always be that little bit more accurate is fine. It adds to the race diversity. In game context, which is how I work, it is basically scan from final fantasy. It helped a bit, sure, but it will never affect the outcome of a battle. It is purely cosmetic. It's not like you know the opponents abilities after all... Im on my phone so err, cutting it short here. But I don't really care about this one way or another... If someone wants to spend theirbexp on it let them do it *shrugs*.
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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:22 pm

Well here are some examples as to what it can and can't do (based on canon stuff)

Ulquiorra was listed as one of THE most proficient users of Pesquisa

In his fight against Ichigo he thoroughly explained that he knew from the moment he saw Ichigo that he was stronger than him (he saw Ichigo in his Bankai, and after that in his Masked Form as well, meaning he DID see him - and THEN discerned his strength in relation to his). Ulquiorra, despite this, did NOT know that Ichigo had what we list as the Gekido Augment, meaning he could only ever tell the power level of a person in his current state.

What he could not do (as this is a technique that senses Reiryoku, and does not actually analyze anything), was the lay out of the (what we call) mastery levels, and I believe that wouldn't really make sense anyway. He repeatedly noticed in his fight against Ichigo in Las Noches that he had actually gotten stronger. He could as well not predict WHAT Ichigo's Mastery level of Reiatsu allowed him to do as he was surprised when Ichigo wrapped his Getsuga Tenshou around his sword. What he could do again, was discern the power of this wrapped Getsuga Tenshou.

Now, Nnoitra was able to exactly assess the amount of Reiryoku Kenpachi had (with a technique specified on Kenpachi however), and was visibly impressed by the super-duper-plot armored Kenpachi. He could not however, do that while facing Kenpachi. Ulquiorra, I assume, could have done that again, as he did so with Ichigo (iirc). So that already shows the differences in Mastery this can take.

To sum up, Pesquisa is technique to sense levels Reiryoku at ALL, and in more advanced forms assess these Reiryoku levels. It can also discern the Reiatsu levels of Reiatsu-based attacks as shown in the Manga.

My suggestion for Pesquisa would for one be:

Name: Pesquisa
Minimum Requirement: Reiatsu Mastery: Average
Description: Allows the user to actively sense and locate Reiatsu in a specific area, as well as roughly predict levels of strength. E.g.: Discern that one Reiryoku level is high, and another is lower. Can also relate this to his own power level and predict if he/she is stronger or weaker than the Reiryoku levels sensed. Can actively locate Reiryoku, and passively sense Reiatsu-based attacks in the manner of a weak and not-on-point radar system.
Cost: 250 Exp

^^^^^^^This is something I would perhaps implement for every race possible. I don't have perfect overview over the image you have of your system, so my Proposition for Minimum Requirement, extent of ability and Cost may not be synchronized perfectly. Just an idea for what it could look like. Again: This is something that can be implemented into all races. It is as Vai said, an extremely basic ability that functions as a Sonar.

But Arrancar, my example is again: Ulquiorra, have been shown to have a higher capability in using Pesquisa. So I would suggest a second Augment JUST for Arrancar. I am a canon-whore, and like to go off what is shown in the Manga xD So this is just my suggestion. Wouldn't be mad at all and totally understanding if this gets scribed off:

Name: Pesquisa [insert Spanish word]
Minimum Requirement: Reiatsu Mastery: Master
Description: Allows the user to passively sense and locate Reiatsu in a specific area, as well as discern levels of strengths. This passive mastery of Pesquisa also allows for reading of Reiatsu based attacks in the manner of a sixth sense. Can discern the levels of strengths of Reiatsu based attacks and Reiryoku passively
Cost: 500 Exp
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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:29 pm

While this isn't an augment suggestion, it is a Mechanical one. I like the Augment system a fair bit, it's the first of its kind that I've seen. However, I think it would be better served along sides a Stats and Skills system. As is, the current load-out of masteries is fairly easily maxed from what I can gather, which means that in the end every character ends up virtually the same; Augments being the only way to diversify oneself and even those can all be purchased after a bit of time.

What I suggest is pretty simple. Offer up four or so stats; Strength, Durability, Speed, Reiatsu and Stamina if you want to have the tiring effect really be noticed. Take the current masteries and put them in as skills; Zanjutsu(Weapon Skill), Hakuda(H2H), Shunpo(HSM, Sonido, etc etc), Kido(1 Skill for each of the 2 schools), Cero OR Bala, etc etc. Something like that. Of course each races allotted skills would be different, and some races (Vaizard) would obviously share a pool of skills thus making them the most expensive to play. You could even introduce a skill like Zanpakutou Unity/Fullbringer Unity/Hollow Resonance that would define each individuals aptitude with their power. Of course for Shinigami, this would also represent how close they and their Zanpakutou Spirit are.

S'far as stats go there's really only two options; Numerical and Representation. The first is both the easiest and hardest to work with. When stats are paired up in a Numerical sense you get a very clear idea of what your stats vs someone elses means; IE my strength is 50, yours is 20. I'm clearly the stronger of the two. Representational stats, I lack a better word to call this, would be something more akin to bubbles. These bubbles wouldn't be a steadfast way to represent your stats vs someone elses, but instead would merely show what your affinities are. Doing the bubble method is fairly simple in terms of purchasing as well. Say you have 4 Stats, the ones suggested above. Each rank category would be granted X amount of total bubbles; the amount of bubbles being very dependent upon your Rank. As you write, and thus progress your own character's arc and strength, you'd be allotted more bubbles to fill in as you so choose. The issue with this however is that say we have 2 Shinigami. One a Captain, the other a 4th Seat. In terms of strength both share 3 bubbles. Upon looking at this you might assume that the pair are equal in terms of physical might, but that might not necessarily be true for a cadre of reasons. Numerical stats negate that issue, and provide a much more clear and defined character growth; it's visible and in a sort of language we deal with on a daily basis.


Last edited by Katsurou on Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:38 pm

I am fairly fond of this site NOT having a stat system. The problem with stat systems are always the same: How do you REALLY determine? You would need precise numbers, and how exactly do you implement those while you write? I would find it highly shattering to the immersive feeling I get when writing in a free environment, when I have to add: "And he was moving at 300 kilometers per hour"

I also think that a stat system belongs into an ENTIRELY different thread. This one is just supposed to be to discuss the Pesquisa Augment I propose, and perhaps other Augments people come up with, so they're all in one thread. Of course, not necessary, just an offer.

Anyway, I am happy that this site has no stat system. Battle moderation should solve certain issues. And tbh, even stat systems need limits. And those limits apply somewhen and somewhere, so ultimately: Everyone could max out stats at some point as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:51 pm

Actually, clear Stating and defined rules would naturally prevent what we'll call "capping". No one in the world is a god at everything. The same applies to our characters here. As things are now, most everyone has 2+ skills at mastery which makes determining any sort of winner in combat pretty difficult; I swing at you with Master Weapon Skill, you block with Master Weapon Skill. The fight leads no where. Secondly, a speed stat wouldn't define exactly how fast you are; not in the sense of MPH or KPH. It's a representation of how your speed matches against the speed of others.

As far as Stating on a site goes, Sites that offer a Stats system prove to grow larger and last longer than sites without. Am I fan of Stats? To a degree. They're a visible representation that one can choose to ignore or adhere to. But, as you said; that's for a different thread.

I've nothing thus far to add to the Augment discussion.
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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:08 pm

This is getting offtopic xD And I can just say I disagree with you there. So because I have 1 point more in weapon skill my swing automatically powers through? There's a sense of fairness that gets in fights when you don't have a stat system. Also when there's battle moderation. Once you have fights, it gets to combat builds, combat builds lead to an extreme combat-focused rping style where the power of your character and not his individuality is moved into the spotlight. I would rather leave if it out of the site. It's fine as it is, I'm fairly confident that rp fighting doesn't need stats. I do it frequently and the more freedom and understanding between you and your combat partner, the better and more epic the fighting. The less freedom, the more you will focus on actually being simply more powerful than your opponent. You will also pick your opponents out that much more carefully. A huge gaming aspect would just float in that I dislike.

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PostSubject: Re: Augment Suggestion   Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:01 pm

So....getting back on topic >.> I would like to see auguments that are oriented towards Vizards who want more Hollow-like capabilities. Not really saying "Give us more power, make us the best" in so many words. Just things that break down that barrier a bit more. Make us more Hollow-like, or show exactly how "far from grace" we have fallen, y'know? Only because I look at it like sure...there are mask differences with time, however at some point everyone probably will have the 15 post limit or unlimited time. Which doesn't leave a whole lot of room for characters (like Vai, or the rogue Vizard, or probably Merihem) who would be more than happy to take a trip down the dark side of things. I do get that we have that Hollow fusion, and that's cool. Not looking for something BEYOND that, just some in between things, y'know? Like you had said before, Ach, Tosen was basically like a COMPLETED Vizard. Displaying powers and abilities that arguably surpassed that of the present Vizards. Not saying I want a site full of Tosens running about (that's actually the last thing I want), but I feel like there's a bit of space that could be filled somehow before jumping the gun and going from 0-80. I have some ideas, but I'd rather refrain from posting them in the event that everyone is all like "Lol. No.". No sense in doing the work, if the idea is shot down =P

One more thing. Maybe I missed it, but do Bounts have access to those mosquitoes thingies here? I always enjoyed them. They added a nice bit of pressure to fights from what I've seen. Sapping power and leaving the enemy weak for a little while, if not the entire duration of the fight :3 Yay, Bounts!

One more thing. I know I mentioned this like...a while ago, but effects of reiatsu. Things like Yamamoto's causes fires, Toshiro's and Rukia cause things to get crazy cold, Zaraki causes fear and can even cause phantom pain. Any chance we can see any of that? >.>

One more thing.
Ganz wrote:
Name: Pesquisa [insert Spanish word]
Minimum Requirement: Reiatsu Mastery: Master
Description: Allows the user to passively sense and locate Reiatsu in a specific area, as well as discern levels of strengths. This passive mastery of Pesquisa also allows for reading of Reiatsu based attacks in the manner of a sixth sense. Can discern the levels of strengths of Reiatsu based attacks and Reiryoku passively
Cost: 500 Exp

My only issue with this is that I highly doubt Ulquiorra came out of his Vasto Lorde state swinging with that. I view it as an ability that can be developed and heightened. Much like Yoruichi was the Flesh Step Goddess, and could do crazy things. She didn't just become that by being born (reborn?) and going "Hey! I'm a goddess! Fear me!" Or whatever. OH THAT REMINDS ME!!

I WANNA TRANSFORM INTO A CAT!!! Can this happen? Please say yes.

Oh so, back on topic. Maybe (since it IS an Arrancar natural ability) have a lower cost for Arrancar, and a higher one for everyone else?
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